Navigating Child Loss: A Shared Journey of Healing and Transformation with Zadi Ashbrook

Have you ever wrestled with the guilt and grief that comes from the unimaginable loss of a child? As your hosts, we welcome you into a raw and poignant conversation with the brave Zadi Ashbrook, a young mother navigating those very emotions. Her story is a testament to the strength born out of necessity, the unique journey of grief, and the potential for post-traumatic growth. 

Zadi doesn't hold back in sharing the reality of losing a child; the guilt, the painful "what-ifs," and the seeming impossibility of life carrying on. She takes us through her personal healing journey, sharing how counseling and journaling have been instrumental in her process. We engage in an open conversation about the often-unsaid aspects of grief, the unexpected waves of loss, and the transformation of relationships after such a life-altering event. 

Our discussion moves into the realm of coping; highlighting the importance of seeking support, the significance of navigating significant dates and milestones, and the potential for growth amidst the pain. Whether it's through the currency of shared experiences or the promise of resilience, Zadi's story serves as a beacon of hope for others on a similar path. 

This is not just an episode; it's an invitation to a shared journey of healing, growth, and transformation; and it is part of the special Faith Beyond Child Loss Series.

Chapters

• 0:00 Child Loss
• 6:55 Expressing Emotions and Finding Healing
• 11:56 Coping With Child Loss and Grief
• 20:52 Navigating Happiness and Sadness in Grief
• 24:57 Grief and Coping With Child Loss

Transcript

Tim Maceyko: 0:00

Happy to be here. Well, I'm not happy this week because of the topic we're going to talk about, but Zadi Ashbrook is here with me. Zadi, welcome to Faith Beyond. I'm excited you could be here. Well not excited exactly, yeah. You're like, you always want to say I'm excited, I'm happy, but this isn't a happy or it's exciting topic today, is it?

Zadi Ashbrook: 0:20

It's not a happy or exciting topic, but I feel like it's needed and I feel like I am happy to be here. I'm happy to be talking to you about this. I have a chance to talk to somebody that understand, so I am happy, okay, well good, good, I'm glad, I'm glad, glad for that piece, okay, and you know it's interesting.

Tim Maceyko: 0:43

You said that because it's so true that when you get with someone else who has lost a child, you automatically have this different bond that other people just can't understand, and so that's a very common thing. But before we get into this, I just want to like, basically, let you take the floor for a moment and tell us your story. Now, you and I talked briefly before we started recording, and I just want you to kind of go ahead and rehash that again for us. A nd that way the people listening know who you are, know your background and what occurred, and why you're on this topic today with me about child loss and the first year difficulties of it. So, go ahead and share with everybody what you shared with me.

Zadi Ashbrook: 1:21

I feel like that's a huge thing. So, I'm 21, I was a teen mom, and I had my daughter Unity, when I just turned 17. And then life went on, and then I got pregnant again at 19, have my son Oakley at 20. I've struggled a lot with mental health since I was probably like 13, maybe 12, when my great grandma passed away who raised me, and so that was kind of a traumatic thing. Not kind of, it was. It was a traumatic loss in my life that I had. I got diagnosed with depression and anxiety and all these things. And then life goes on.

Zadi Ashbrook: 2:05

So, bi-polar is now in the mix, I don't know, it's just a bunch of everything going on. And so, I've noticed that when I got pregnant with Oakley, my life kind of switched. There was like something that switched, and it caused me to become more positive and I got on this like spiritual journey. N ot necessarily religious, but definitely spiritual. That whole pregnancy I was just really really working on myself to better myself. And then I had him and then the seven months that I was able to spend with him. It was all a learning curve, all still working on the positivity and everything. And then I got smacked in the face December 4th of last year when he passed, and we found out that it was SIDS.

Zadi Ashbrook: 2:59

It's a loss and a trauma on another level when it's your child. Literally your only job as a parent is to keep your children alive and that's an intrusive thought. That's been like crossing my mind a lot recently, is like that was my only job and I failed. And I don't really think that, but in like those down moments been crossing my mind a lot and so it's a lot of guilt and like failure and obviously just like grieving and Sadness that comes along with that. And now I'm like seven months later and seven months into this new journey and it's difficult and it's chaotic. Everything about life is chaotic right now and I think that's just life in general.

Tim Maceyko: 3:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's uh, let's stop for a moment and hit on a couple things you said. So, first of all, we're going to talk about Oakley and how you feel guilty. What I want to point out is, this is so normal. It's normal whether you were guilty of anything or not. It's a very natural reaction for someone who's lost a child to blame themselves.

Tim Maceyko: 4:07

I felt the same way when I lost my son, Seth. It was like he died in a bunk bed accident. It was just one of those things, you know, b ut I'm like why did we have the bunk bed? Why weren't we educated on the dangers of it? Why was the ladder to the top bunk down? Like all those little things. You start questioning, right, and you blame yourself, and so it's very, very natural. So, someone's listening, and you say, yeah, I felt the same way. You know, don't feel like you're alone with that. I think that's human nature, like we have to blame somebody or something to make it make sense, and it doesn't make sense in this case. There's not much sense to make out of this, is there?

Zadi Ashbrook: 4:40

No, I think definitely like, as human beings, we try to make everything make sense and there's a reason for this and this had to happen. And if I didn't do that, then it's all the what ifs. They really mess you up. Yes, they do. They do you know. Go in and really let yourself think all of them, because it's never good in my experience so far. Yeah, it's just not. Let's not.

Tim Maceyko: 5:03

Let me just say, I'm sorry for your loss. Of course, you and I talked about this before the show, but I'll make sure I say that again here now that we are live. It's such a difficult thing and it's great for me in the sense of having someone else on the show to talk about this. But it's always horrifying when I have to talk somebody else, because I know the pain, I know what you're going through. I'm 10 years into my journey and so I see things probably a lot differently than you do in that first year. But it doesn't mean it's easier. I mean, when people say it'll get easier in time, I call them on that, bull crap. You know, no, it doesn't get easier. It gets different. Like you know, as time goes on it gets different. You learn how to manage triggers, you learn how to kind of survive and you, you learn like when to pull yourself out of situations and just recognize, like those things. Early on it's hard to do, and so that's kind of where you're at right now.

Zadi Ashbrook: 5:50

Right, it depends on the day, yeah, I think. Yeah, I feel like some days are way easier and then some days are super hard, and I'm trying my best, and I feel like that's kind of the theme of this year. It's just, I'm trying my best every single day, and I don't know. It's definitely difficult, though.

Tim Maceyko: 6:11

Yeah, let me ask you this what have you done so far? You said seven months in, right, mm-hmm. How have you dealt, like, have you gone to any counseling or to grief groups? Or do you have a good support system? Like, how are you dealing with that early emotional piece of this?

Zadi Ashbrook: 6:25

I have an amazing therapist, but I've been talking to her for about a year and a half now. It's been like two years. So, I was talking to her before, now she helps a lot, coming up with different coping skills and everything. But I feel like obviously having her and talking to her and being brutally honest with the thoughts and emotions that I have with her and people that I trust around me has helped a lot. Being able to get the thoughts out instead of holding them in, because that's when they become kind of detrimental to my mental health, has helped. And also, writing my notes in my phone is my best friend right now.

Zadi Ashbrook: 7:12

I have so many, just paragraphs about random thoughts that I have. R eally depressing thoughts or maybe even good ones. A nd I also write music. So, it's just a lot of writing and words, just letting it all out and feeling my emotions completely all the way through, because at one point I was not letting myself do that, and I would just cry for a minute and then stop. And I'm so sorry if you can hear that, my neighbor is weed whacking my house. It sounds like.

Tim Maceyko: 7:48

It's okay, that's a great thing about podcasts. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that happens, right? So, no concerns there. You can't hear it very much anyway. Okay, all good.

Tim Maceyko: 7:57

Well, I like the fact that you said you have a counselor, which I keep saying that, especially for men, we tend to bury ourselves in our work. We're men, we don't talk about our emotions and that kind of thing. A nd women are more apt to go to counseling or seek counseling.

Tim Maceyko: 8:15

And I'm glad you're doing that because, when I look back on it, that would have really helped myself and my family. If I would have taken the whole family together as one unit - my wife, my daughter and gone there, things may have been better. And I didn't do that, and so that's one of my big regrets, looking back in hindsight. Of course, at the time you're struggling, you're trying to survive, but if I could just go back and do it all over again, I would approach it much differently. But the counseling and my second favorite thing is what you just said as well, which is journaling, writing your words down, getting those feelings out. I know one lady who doesn't journal, but she's artistic and she paints, and she has some of the most beautiful paintings I've ever seen, where she's letting her emotions come out that way. And allowing them to get out is such an important piece of this.

Zadi Ashbrook: 8:57

I did that the first two weeks. I have never painted in my life, and I went to the store and got a couple of canvases. I really haven't done it since last December, but I like looking back at them because. Like I said, I'm no artist, but they weren't bad, and you can feel the emotion. So, it was definitely a good way to let it out, and I feel like any way that you can find that's helpful for you, you know, let out your emotions.

Tim Maceyko: 9:31

It's interesting because when you look at some of the greatest artists in the world in our entire lifespan or even before us, long before us, some of those paintings and the music and the early things came from moments of the greatest pain in their lives. I think that there's a lot to be said for that.

Zadi Ashbrook: 9:49

Yeah, I feel like in a really, I don't want to say twisted way, but that's where my mind's going right now. I think that it's almost like maybe a metaphor for life, maybe, where it's like, you know, you go through these horrible moments, tragedies, and you think my life's over, nothing good is ever going to come of this, and then something beautiful happens. I feel like my moment right now is like I'm really really focusing on just being present in the moment and enjoying the time that I have with everyone here, and I feel like that should be super obvious to do, but it wasn't for the first half of this year. Now I'm finally at this point and that is like my beautiful thing. I'm going out, I went to the beach for the first time and just really like soaked in the sunset and spending time with my loved ones, and it was really beautiful. So, I feel like, not that it wouldn't have happened if this tragedy didn't happen, but I'm more grateful for it now maybe.

Tim Maceyko: 10:55

Absolutely, you are. It is amazing to hear you say that, because when I go out and give speeches to groups - whether I talk at a church or I go to a private group or whatever. In fact, a few weeks ago, I was at a grief loss group, and I was talking to them, and we talked about post-traumatic growth or PTG. There's a couple of different things in there that people will experience after going through something so traumatic, and one of those things you just mentioned was how you will savor the moments more than you ever would have before. You see life in a different way.

Zadi Ashbrook: 11:27

Yeah.

Tim Maceyko: 11:28

And so I think that's phenomenal, that you're experiencing a little bit of post-traumatic growth and there's a lot of different steps you can go through. Not everybody goes through all the same things, but you can look it up. It's really interesting psychology stuff and so, I think that's pretty cool. Ok, why don't we go through this list? I told you about this list I got. Now let me make sure I credit Emily Graham from Just Plain House, I want to give credit where credit is due. She wrote an article about 21 things that she experienced after losing her child, and the first year of loss, and that's kind of where you're at. So, I thought it'd be good to talk about. Let's just look at her list, and you can kind of talk about if any of these things that really hit home for you.

Zadi Ashbrook: 12:11

Okay, sounds good, all right.

Tim Maceyko: 12:13

So, first thing, I don't think these are in any particular order necessarily. But she says it's nothing like I imagined it would be. So, she talked about how she didn't think it would be anything like it really was.

Zadi Ashbrook: 12:25

I don't know if I ever really even imagined. I guess in the beginning, like the first day, I'll say second, I really was under the impression that, like my life was over and there's no way that I will ever be able to do anything or be happy again. And that's not true. I still have happy moments and enjoy certain parts of life, but it is different. Everything's very different, and I feel a little empty, which I think is to be expected, but it feels different than what you can think it would.

Tim Maceyko: 13:03

Yeah. People will say I can only imagine. And I was like no, you can't. No, yeah.

Zadi Ashbrook: 13:08

Oh, I've heard that so much.

Tim Maceyko: 13:10

Yeah, yeah.

Zadi Ashbrook: 13:11

So much.

Tim Maceyko: 13:12

I'm going to do another show on things people say that don't help. T here are these common sayings in our society that people don't think about, and that's a whole other show all its own. But yeah, so let's go look at number two here. She said depression is suffocating - something you're very familiar with, I imagine. Y ou said you had depression before this with the other mental health issues.

Zadi Ashbrook: 13:34

It can be. I don't think it has to be. I mean, I still have depression. It's not, you know, didn't go away and I think it should have gotten worse, statistically. But I'd say it's about the same as it always has been, if not better, because I'm paying close attention to my mental health, and I'm making myself a priority right now because I know I could spiral and who knows what could happen then.

Zadi Ashbrook: 14:04

Yeah, and I'm so nervous of that happening. I just won't allow it. So, I don't think that, at least not right now for me.

Tim Maceyko: 14:16

I think you are in a good spot, because you had counseling prior to what you went through. If someone's life was all a bed of roses, so to speak, if they were just happy and life was wonderful and perfect, so to speak

Zadi Ashbrook: 14:28

And then this hits your world in a bad way,. .. yeah not ready if you . I yeah, mean, think I wasn't a I was in agood .Not, not Not a really good place for it to happen, but in a sense, the best possible place you could be is where I was mentally, mentally and I feel like if it would have happened a year before that, I really might not be here right now.

Tim Maceyko: 14:57

Yeah, yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I think the going to year of counseling you had prior to this kind of helped you manage it, even though it was still Horrifying and painful and horrifying. At least you had some kind of level of support going in, rather than have it all hit you and not have that low. So I about that So,, like it hit me hard. But I also had an entire town over here where I live supporting me. I have like a large family, so had all kinds of family members. My aunt had lost my cousin, tony Years before lost jmy she, y years to step in and say I've been here, ron, and I've here this so I had people around me that were basically counseling me through. But not everybody has that luxury and so I would imagine if you're really alone I don't have a support staff, got to be really, really hard.

Zadi Ashbrook: 15:47

Yeah, my mom lost my brother when I was four. His name was Tristan, and he was the same age as my son. Wow, and I found out that I believe four other babies have passed in my family. So, I don't know, this is kind of a side note, I guess but I, when I was pregnant with him, I had dreams that something was gonna going to happen to him. So, So I was like nervous about it before everyone veryone Everyone kind of shrugged it off like, oh, it's not a big deal, it's, you know, it's a thought thoughts, whatever. I don't know if it was just anxiety, if that sense I, because I just, I don't know it's like I knew. So, I did savor her moment with him. I have so many pictures and videos and everything but maybe it's because I learned from my mom's mistake of not doing that and then something happened. So, yeah, that was. I don't know why, but I feel like I should say that.

Tim Maceyko: 16:42

Yeah, it's interesting. Well, I want to make sure we make it clear to anybody listening that neither you nor I are saying that you were in a good place to have this happen. I was, you weren't wnot not. We're saying the suffering, the trauma unbelievable was Unbelievable charts. charts. . I'm still suffering. I know you're still suffering, but there are just scenarios Scenarios where people either -o o r o, they don't have support. It ways, in different ways but it easy, make it easy and I always say you can't compare one person to the next, even if you have the same kind of loss. Everything's different, every, every relationship.

Zadi Ashbrook: 17:16

I have noticed that a lot, not a lot, but a few people have like tried to compare their selves to me just because they've lost a child, and it does kind of rub me the wrong way a little bit. Not because I their intentions are always good and it's not that good, it's just Don't expect that,. to just, don't on't through exactly what you went through, because I'm not you and our Situations are completely different situations I just different,. like it depends on the person. But I don't know it's, it's happened a few times and it doesn't really feel that great when they're like, oh, this helped me, let me do this and you should do this, and then it's like, hey, no yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you.

Tim Maceyko: 18:00

She says here, child loss is more prevalent I ever knew, You know, I agree with that. Like it's like you Like, see that car going down the road that you bought and you go bought, oh, I go, that car everywhere now. Well, you don't even think about child loss until you go through it and then you realize, wow, it's, it happens than it should, unfortunately so. I think that's common. You will make people uncomfortable.

Zadi Ashbrook: 18:23

I can only assume that I do, but I'm like so aware of it. I have a lot of mom friends and I mean two of them had babies, you know, a month before I gave birth and a month after I gave birth, and so I don't want to talk to them about the thoughts that I have or what happened. I mean, they know, but I don't want to go into detail or vent because I don't want to cause panic in them. I don't want to bring someone down, I don't want to make them uncomfortable because they don't know what to say or what to do, and so I kind of don't, but I don't really talk to anyone about it. So, I don't know if it makes people uncomfortable because I don't really give them that option to, yeah.

Tim Maceyko: 19:11

It's a very common thing where people will tell me they have people that were friends with them who kind of avoid them now, or they see them and they kind of turn the other way, like like, because they're Uncomfortable. uncomfortable They don't know how to talk to you, because I don't think that people realize that it's okay to mention your child's name, it's okay to have those memories. In fact, I want to hear about those stories didn't hear before, because that's that's all we have , and so don't to speak up. I I like this one. She you will get this next n at people that mean well, you will get angry at people that mean yeah, all the time, mean well, w.

Zadi Ashbrook: 19:49

All the time.

Tim Maceyko: 19:50

Yeah, and don't you feel guilty? oo??, like because not them, it's other thing going on, and then you go uh, I should have been nicer about that.

Zadi Ashbrook: 19:59

Yeah, I yeah, it's really bad. I feel maybe you do understand, but I feel like sometimes my sadness will come out in anger or irritability. Really for me, I feel bad about it. I always do. I always feel super, super bad, but it's, it's a thing.

Tim Maceyko: 20:16

Yeah, I guess I'm mentioning it iso that people, if you're listening to the, the show that you understand that if someone's lost a child or even loved a Love one in and are o and so suffering and grieving, they're likely to lash out and you might get mad at them, be like, oh I acted can't believe they act understand if ithat's that's. If that's not them normally, that's probably not them now. It's the emotions and the difficulty they're going through So, So keep that in mind. They need your support and more than ever. N agree with that one.

Zadi Ashbrook: 20:48

Nothing else to say, really, I mean.

Tim Maceyko: 20:50

I agree. Let's move on. You will feel happiness at times, but it will always be coupled with sadness.

Zadi Ashbrook: 20:58

I just had this moment when I was at the beach. Yeah, I was super happy, just being so peaceful, and then I got sad. Same thing happens with, like birthdays and it's I'm excited that it's my 21st birthday. This is so fun. I'm supposed to party and then I'm crying on my way to my party because I wish my baby was here. And it doesn't make any sense because he wouldn't be there anyways. You know, like he wouldn't even be at my 21st birthday.

Tim Maceyko: 21:34

So, i it makes total t sense. It makes total sense, though, ., l this but let et very first this, this - - - you felt happiness, whether you laughed or you smiled, when wyou felt that the very first time after your son died, how did it make you feel when you, when you had that moment of laughter remember?

Zadi Ashbrook: 21:54

Definitely the first thought was how could I be laughing right now or how could I be enjoying life when he passed away two days ago? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense, like I'm supposed to be sad for the rest of my life, always.

Tim Maceyko: 22:08

Yes, and that's the point I wanted to make for everybody was t because recall the same exact thing. I forget why it was, what happened, but I remember I laughed finally, like after like, however, many , , laughed, then I was so horrified that I had the audacity to laugh and to feel good and to be happy when my son was lying there you know, not here and I hated myself in that here, moment for for, for feeling good and feeling, and and I was wondering if happy. and. nd way and you said you did yeah, it's horrible to feel guilty for being Happy maybe not even happy just having like a happy, nice laugh.

Zadi Ashbrook: 22:47

I don't even know why I laughed, it might have been a video that I saw, yeah, but it did feel good. And, yeah, I felt bad afterwards, but I think that kind of sparked like a thought in my head, he wouldn't want me to be sad for the rest of my life, you know, and I think that was kind of one of the Bigger bigger points where I'm like like, allowed to be happy happy, it's okay good for you.

Tim Maceyko: 23:11

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. You know, they would not want us to be unhappy and have to keep living. So yeah.

Tim Maceyko: 23:18

Don't feel guilty if you have a moment of happiness at some point point!, on , let's so are not gonna know when that's going to occur. of like going to you just said a moment ago, where one minute You're happy, what? Next minute you're sad? It just you're pops up Nthe next coaster. sad, it might have up, like, okay, I'm getting through this, I'm moving on onto a having a good day and then boom, right and where I was day, in the shower that morning.

Zadi Ashbrook: 23:43

Yeah, it always shows up at, I wouldn't say the worst times, but like right I'm about to leave and go to somebody's house or I house,. to go out in the public and Two public, minutes before two that I'm crying in the car and a car, lot of the times it comes over me at like four in the morning and Then morning, I just then don't sleep for the rest of the day. So kind of So, yeah, it does, it does, it creeps up on you and I would say, most of the time pretty bad time, timing.

Tim Maceyko: 24:15

I really a thinkne Next ooneNext ois Next: - - n. People will surprise you, and she mentioned about, I actually talked about how the people that you thought would be there maybe weren't and the people that you didn't expect to be there were, and how that may change the way you view the relationships around you.

Zadi Ashbrook: 24:36

Yes, I've had to create some distance with people I never thought I would have to, especially in this moment, and then a lot of people I've become really close with. That I never not I would, but I wouldn't assume that and would bring us closer. It's interesting.

Tim Maceyko: 24:56

Yeah, I agree. The other thing she says here is it is not strength I possess, it is necessity. So people always say you're so strong, I wish I could be like you. And it's not strength, it's a necessity.

Zadi Ashbrook: 25:10

Yeah, because if you're not, you don't know what could happen. You know it's just, it's all it is, it's out of necessity. I never really thought of it that way, but I've been hearing that a lot. Yeah, you're so strong, you're the strongest person I know. I could never go through that. I'm like, I didn't think I could either. You know, but it really wasn't a choice. It's my life now.

Tim Maceyko: 25:30

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. I apologize. I was going to say it's another post traumatic growth thing where you realize this inner strength that you never would have realized if you hadn't gone through what you went through. And so that's one of those PTG growth things that she's actually talking about here. And then I like this one. I'll just leave one more here. She had 21 of these, but I'm not ngoing to hit them all But But you will survive. You will survive, and I think that's very profound in the sense that you feel like you're not going to, especially in the early days, weeks, months. You don't know how you're going to make it through, but you will. You just got to keep the faith and hold on to hope.

Zadi Ashbrook: 26:06

Yeah, and the really, really hard moments where I'm just bawling my eyes out, especially in the very beginning, that chest pain and no, you know what I'm talking about, like this hole in my heart and this egg it feels like it could kill you really, and then just the thought of imagining your future without them there is just, you really can't imagine it, and it seems like for me it seemed like, well, if I can't imagine it, then it's just not going to happen. I'm just not going to make it to this future that I'm thinking about. So it was, yeah, but I don't feel that way now. So, it's a good thing.

Tim Maceyko: 26:45

That's a good thing, that's a real good thing. I'm glad you don't feel that way. I don't feel that way now. So, that was just some of the things that she had mentioned in her article, and there's a lot more. Feel free to check that article out, but I wanted to kind of touch base it with you on the first things that you're experiencing. So, when is his birthday? Have you experienced that yet?

Zadi Ashbrook: 27:04

Yeah, April 18th.

Tim Maceyko: 27:06

And what was that like for you?

Zadi Ashbrook: 27:08

I was kind of numb on the actual day. We had a little get together. We had a little get together. We had a bunch of family and friends get together at this little place. We had food, we had cake, we had everyone bring baby clothes and toys that we could go donate. And, yeah, I didn't really feel a lot, though I didn't cry or anything. It was just I'm here and I almost felt like why am I here? Like why am I doing this? This makes no sense. It was I don't know, but the day after was horrible. It was horrible. It was the worst. Like I think that was the first time in my life that I have ever wailed. Is that the right word? Yeah, I mean, it was just a sound that I've never heard before. I couldn't breathe. It was. It was really a lot.

Tim Maceyko: 28:01

Yeah, I think you hit on like a lot of people, feel numb and the thing is, the first year is the absolute worst. Now, year two for me wasn't much better, but the first year, like you said, you kind of sleepwalk almost through a lot of things. You feel like a zombie in a lot of ways. It's not just the first birthday, it's the holidays, you know, whether it's Easter or you and Thanksgiving and Halloween's horrible for you know w all the kids out there doing that thing. You think about the moments you're not going to have and all those things.

Tim Maceyko: 28:30

But also, it's the change of seasons. You know, when you go from one season to the next it can really affect you because, like for my son, he was five years old when he passed, and so the spring and it's its season, the to like ready for and so your mind goes to that. And the local t-ball field. You drive ball-ball and the kids are out there playing and just melt your ,, ymelt, 10 years heart hurts later, because you're like he never got to do that, he was supposed to start that year, that he had year.

Tim Maceyko: 29:00

You know, going back to school, going back to school season is rough for some people, and so it was all these different times. But the birthdays and the death days are noted as two of the absolute most horrendous for child loss parents, and so I just want to mention that that don't be surprised if you're out there and those are really difficult for you. They just are, they always will be. And this year we did a 10 year reunion. We actually got everybody back together at the house and we did a balloon release, something we haven't done. You know I'm not real big on balloon releases just because they bust and they bust, all over.

Tim Maceyko: 29:33

You know it's not great for the nature, but it was a way to remember him, and we whad everybody here an and evening for a few hours, and it was just nice to have some of the faces we haven't seen in a while while, also just the fact that people remembered even 10 years later later, you feel a little better.

Zadi Ashbrook: 29:50

Yeah, I feel like everything is just super difficult because I only got one holiday with him throughout the year. You know, I got one Easter, which I really didn't, because he was born the day after Easter, so I really didn't, and so that reminds me of that. One Halloween, one, didn't even get to Christmas, so Christmas is going to suck.

Tim Maceyko: 30:16

Y.

Zadi Ashbrook: 30:17

It's going to suck again. I don't know. I feel like it's. Yeah, it's the holidays that probably hit the worst. Yeah, not looking forward to them.

Tim Maceyko: 30:26

You know, the big thing, the reason we are doing these, is I'm doing a series on people who have lost a child, and we're going to talk about different topics in order to hopefully help some people out there who can go.

Tim Maceyko: 30:36

Hey, that's not just me, I'm not the only one that feels that way, I'm not the only one that does those things or reacts that way, and so, I really appreciate you coming on and talking with us today, and maybe here in the future I'll have you back on for another show. I'd like to get two or three people on and have kind of a group discussion about, especially that people say. I think that needs to be a group of us to sit down around the table and talk about it from a viewpoint of the things that hurt us, but also why they hurt and what works Like what did people say or works,. like that actually were beneficial. So I think that's an important topic So, too. So I'm looking forward to do that I'd love to have on that, if you want to maybe come back on again and do that, of course.

Zadi Ashbrook: 31:19

Hopefully I'll be able to get my words out better.

Tim Maceyko: 31:23

It's okay. That's why I like podcasting though, because it's real. It's not some polished up fake TV show. Even reality TV is not real. This right here is the worst. Yeah, it's crazy, but this is real. Your four-year-old daughter comes in and messes up, and I'm worried about my dogs barking over here and scratching the door that I have shut behind me.

Zadi Ashbrook: 31:46

Yeah, my neighbor started weed-wacking my house. That was crazy.

Tim Maceyko: 31:54

Hey, he got it done though, didn't he? Apparently, apparently, he did. Ok, do you have anything else you want to add, or have we covered enough for you today?

Zadi Ashbrook: 32:03

I feel like maybe the only thing I'll say is just try to stay as positive as you can, and that really is the only thing that got me through the first couple months, and it was not necessarily the most healthy thing to do, but I was positive enough to just keep going and that's what got me to this point, and now we're working on the healthy parts of coping. But really I feel like you just have to do what you have to do, to just stay here and you'll figure it out eventually.

Tim Maceyko: 32:38

Well, Zadi, thank you for coming on. We'll definitely have you back.

Zadi Ashbrook: 32:41

Thank you.

Tim Maceyko: 32:42

And thanks everybody for listening. Hopefully you found something beneficial from today's show.